If the only time in 15 years you were ever seen by your postal worker was once when you'd just woken up and were collecting a parcel and it had been a hot night and you'd sweated a lot and had not yet brushed your teeth and smelled a little 'ripe' would their lasting impression of you be a fair and accurate one?
And what if that same morning, the meter reader had also seen you for the only time? Good argument for the "Charlie intent", Grim. Interesting his plan was to have TJ did the shooting of crowe. I Will saythat, and i know you agree with this part, there's nuance and not clear black and white involved in the whole thing. I believe Charlie to be culpable, the environment of easy murder was created by him.
He went along on the second night "to show off 'em how it's done" so he's directly involved in Labianca and Shea. Tex's dumbassery is key to the results though. The govt WAS involved in hey we elected haliburton so what do you expect? Or did we? How much better would the world be if gore had won? Name one other example of strong arming for money?
The Examples you gave are not money related. I agree the violence was escalating Also note that TJ couldn't do it. So Charlie's murder orders or ramblings only work on someone ready to murder. The command, "Do what [insert male name here] tells you to do," was a pimp talking to his stable. Tex may have been drunk with power the head pimp gave him the keys. May not be reality. Ahhhh gotta go to work! Dan S said: Tex's dumbassery is key to the results though The entire Tex led aftermath is what gives the events their horror.
After all, murder is ultimately a results led affair and it was what Tex did that made the papers, kept making the news, got him and the others convicted and sentenced to death and why he remains in jail with little real hope of ever being paroled, despite the changes he's made in his life.
No doubting that. But it is so important to understand what brought him and the others to that point where they were actually ready and willing to kill. That wasn't true of Charlie, Susan, Clem or Leslie.
Or even Bill Vance. And with Larry Jones, one can see it was the start up of his, shall we say, violence of mind. But going back to Tex, it is easy to see why Charlie and the women always take centre stage and he lurks in the shadows.
The murders didn't happen because of Tex. He was the most effective instrument in carrying them out. The Examples you gave are not money related Lotsapoppa is. But my general point was that there was an escalation of violence. The violence didn't just appear with tales of HS and it wasn't just a reflection of the more violent atmosphere among young people in the USA and western wold post ' It was inevitable that in an arena where he was the undisputed leader, that would start to work its way out from him on his group to being visited on others, by the Family, at his instruction or by his example, for whatever reason.
And given that they needed money, that some of those tactics would sooner or later be employed to get it. Part of the Cielo mission was to "get all of" the inhabitants money " and kill whoever was there. Sandy turned money over to Johnny Brunner - More And More (Vinyl). Juanita turned money over to him and so did other people and we're not talking peanuts. Summer '69 was the start of that strong arming of people for money.
Dan S said: Also note that TJ couldn't do it. So Charlie's murder orders or ramblings only work on someone ready to murder I can see where you're going with this and it's a legit argument from just about any logical viewpoint. But I think it's a nuanced point, as are many. Murder is an odd thing in many peoples' minds.
There are people that will murder but who will not view their actions as murder. Many of us happily label terrorists, hit men, gang bangers, invading soldiers and the like as murderers but they certainly don't see themselves that way. So when a phrase like "ready to murder" is used, I think the context is crucial. What does it mean and from whose viewpoint are looking?
She deliberately murdered her lover's wife. She didn't see herself as being in a war of any kind. There wasn't any moral ambiguity in her mind about society's values on one hand and hers on the other. That's not the case with the Family. It's not very satisfying to look at things like that. I know it is frequently put that "these people just enjoyed killing and wanted to kill" but it is such a paradox that this is too simplistic an explanation.
Now, don't get me wrong, it's not a way of saying that they were nice kids really, and they just fell into bad company. Is it so simple to suppose that on the morning of August 8th, Tex and Pat were, in their own minds ready to kill? Neither had shown any history of violence, even minor. They were in the system for such trifling matters. That's partly why I've long leaned towards the idea that even though their prints were found at the scene of the crime, presuming the perps kept their mouths shut, a tenacious lawyer playing their cards right could have got a walk for both.
We'll never of course know this, but how many of the killers would have ended up on death row independent of Charlie? So for me, it's not a simple matter that can be fixed with a simple sentence. There's a whole universe of nuance and paradox in there. Tex woke up that fateful morning ready to impress his peer group.
Charlie made the murder part of it seem to be nothing worse than stealing typewriters. Grim I am coming more and more to your way of thinking these days since I turned 90 back in April. I think a core argument that should be made is that Charlie had great instincts but the education of a twelve year old. Edit Close. Log In Become a Member. Dashboard Logout. Previous hosts Tom Bergeron and Erin Andrews are out.
Stay up-to-date on what's happening Receive the latest in local entertainment news in your inbox weekly! Sign up! Kevin C. Johnson Kevin C. Johnson is the pop music critic for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Author twitter Author email Follow Kevin C. Your notification has been saved. There was a problem saving your notification.
Manage followed notifications. Close Followed notifications. Please log in to use this feature Log In. Don't have an account? Sign Up Today. Related to this story. Most Popular. A professor once defined specialisation as knowing more and more about less and less.
In March the popular humorist Arthur Bugs Baer employed a compressed variant. In June the physician Irene Sand penned an opinion piece that appeared in several U. We are in need of social engineers who can combine harmoniously the findings of Johnny Brunner - More And More (Vinyl) knowledge.
This is particularly true of the field of medicine. Of Johnny Brunner - More And More (Vinyl) we do not prefer the other extreme, the superficial person who every day knows less and less about more and more. In December a pastor in Johnny Brunner - More And More (Vinyl), Illinois who previously has served as an officer in the British military delivered a speech containing a definition of expert that combined two expressions: 8.
While common schools have existed for 50 years there they have not made headway against the great private schools in which the leaders of English thought have been trained. The name was ambiguous, but it might refer to William J.
Mayo, one of the founders of the Mayo Clinic: 9. The famous Dr. It is always ignorance which makes the big and boastful claims. The elaborate training which they have so often received is a sorry substitute for education.
They are high-minded, eager and devoted specialists and illustrate to the full the definition, marked as much by truth as by wit, that the specialist is one who knows more and more about less and less, Johnny Brunner - More And More (Vinyl). For whatever other purposes this trait may be useful, it is quite futile as an instrument of education. In the Associated Press reported on humorous remarks made by Robert E. Swain who was a Stanford University chemist. Swain explained the difference between a scientist and a philosopher:
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